Interview: Chris Davey
Chris Davey, Creative Director at Whitespace, discusses big ideas, collaboration and innovation.
The timing for this interview could not have been better. Whitespace is a booming agency with a list of awards and nominations longer than this writer’s arm. In June 2015 they were on the verge of moving to their new premises — a perfect opportunity for a peak behind the scenes!
Chris leads a team at Whitespace. He delivers award winning projects for clients including: Skyscanner, Oxfam, Innes & Gunn and Visit Scotland. When he’s not in the studio Chris can be found throwing himself off mountains attached to a bicycle.
Last updated July 2020.
12 min read
Stewart Ainslie_
I often meet people who have a little chip about London. I wondered if you agreed there was bad blood?
Chris Davey_
Totally on board with the ideal that location is becoming less important. I wouldn’t personally agree with having any bad blood with London though. We’ve got London clients and they value us massively because it’s based on relationships not geography. Perhaps recently those barriers have broken down as you can work with anyone in the world. Personally I’ve further aspirations than London.
There’s a great scene here, it’s relatively small but we’re certainly on a par with everywhere else around the world.
I was part of a course called TRC Media Cross Creative which took me to San Fransisco. We had an amazing time meeting some incredible tech and design companies out there.
I think there’s this attitude (particularly in Scotland) that we’re just alright, that we’re not really playing a global stage [Chris laughs at this point]. You know, we see all the amazing work from around the world and we imagine that everyone is doing it better than we are.
Meeting companies in San Francisco was eye opening. I saw some of their great work and I thought “Yeah we’re doing the same as you guys”!
I actually came back thinking, “we’re just as good as everyone else” and we should be singing the praises of Scotland and the work that comes from here.
People want to work in Scotland. We’ve got a real draw here and there’s so much going on, so I think the image of London being where all the best and greatest work is happening just isn’t true. I’ve met a lot of people that are leaving London and setting up agencies, which is great.
When I graduated it was the done thing that you went to London to get a job. It still is in a way, but London is not the centre of the Universe, even though it sometimes thinks it is!
Stew_
I suppose in London they’re going through the same challenges and have similar issues as the rest of us. Perhaps they’re more comfortable communicating their success?
Chris_
There’s inherent jealousy amongst all designers, you know the feeling. It’s when you see a piece of work that’s so good that you want to be sick. It makes you want to push harder and create those ideas that are going to make others rage with jealousy!
Anyone can have an idea regardless of who they are. The trick is recognising a good idea and then exploring it. We [at Whitespace] have started developing our own projects. We are building services and products that might benefit us. Ideally some of them will benefit our clients! Learning from that ‘startup mentality’ is interesting.
I mentioned everyone can have great ideas. If a junior approaches us with an idea we’ll certainly investigate it. If it’s interesting we’ll pursue it further. Ultimately, if it can turn profit and if it pushes us we’ll absolutely go for it!
Stew_
Is that startup mentality something which is structured? By that I mean, is it a part of daily or weekly time sheets or is it a bit more casual?
Chris_
Back in 2015 it was much more casual Stew. Obviously our clients will always come first. We have a few ongoing projects which have some promise. We’re also looking at using our new event space as a more collaborative creative venue.
Stew_
You’re not long in to the new Whitespace studio. Previously you guys weren’t all under one roof. How important is that to the company culture?
Chris_
Massively important. The new building is pretty big and really is built with collaborative work space in mind (it won BCO best office fit out). Prior to 2016 there were 80 of us in a space designed for 50. It’s was vital that we moved into a new space. The obvious benefit is being able to chat with one another regardless of team or job description. The new building is an amazing venue for clients and visitors too. Students, potential new hires, prospects and members of the public!
Wouldn’t it be great if we could build a real venue in the heart of Scotland? We’re hoping that the new event space and bar will be a huge step towards that.
It’s going to be an amazing place to work. I live about 20 miles south of Edinburgh so I’m going to have the best of both worlds (for me). Great studio to work in and awesome rolling hills to get out on my bike in and clear my head!
Where does it all start?
Stew_
Can you talk me through a bit about your creative process? How do you approach a brief?
Chris_
We start with ideas. A client will come to us with a problem or challenge. It is our duty to interrogate and question what that problem or challenge is. They might approach us with a clear idea of what they want. By the end of a project we might end up with something totally different! It’s not what clients always expect but it is so much more effective in achieving their goals.
There are so many ways to communicate and get a message out to an audience nowadays. Hence Whitespace call ourselves a media neutral organisation. We look for the idea first and then select the best route to drive that message home to the right audience. So, it’s not about making something for: online, social, experiential, VR, AR, mobile or video.
The idea and goals will inform the execution—you’ve got to start there. With a few tweaks a good idea should work no matter where it’s published.
Of course, all this influences our career choices too. It’s less and less common for us to hire a ‘digital’ or a ‘print’ designer. Kids today are like, “what even is that?”. They are multi talented. Its sad in a way when I see graduates advertising themselves as ‘a Brand, Web, Print, Ideas, Motion or Graphic Designer’. You see that a lot! To me I think it’s all blended into one now, so they should really just say they are Designers or Creatives.
Collaboration
Stew_
To what extent do you collaborate with freelancers or third parties? Where are they typically based?
Chris_
We try to work as much as possible with other companies and freelancers in the UK, usually within Scotland. If we have a project that we think would suit a particular freelancer and they’re not local that’s fine. But our preference is to work with people nearer to home.
Whitespace employ a photographer and illustrator too, both of whom are brilliant. So we have the capability to cover most projects that come our way internally. We really enjoy having that talent under the same roof as our design, digital and other teams.
Some projects really benefit from collaboration. Like when we worked with Joanna Basford. It was part of a two day live tweet project to design the Edinburgh Festival Fringe program cover. She was drawing people’s tweets as they came in which was great. So when we can do cool stuff with those types of people — brilliant!
Regardless of distance we will always strive to get some all important face-to-face time. We have a client in Bristol and we will happily fly down to see them. We do all the usual conference calls, Skype and emails etc and the new studio is totally geared up to support that. At Whitespace our account managers handle day-to-day contact. Creatives would get involved for presentations, briefing pitches etc.
The previous studio space.
Digital Darwinism
Stew_
Technology moves on so fast. A not-so-ancient example would be responsive web design, which must have caused some issues in a large agency. How do you keep up?
Chris_
It’s interesting, we’ve had a lot of these conversations regularly and we have only recently changed our internal processes.
We started building responsive websites almost eight years ago now. The first one would have been highlandspring.co.uk, and we had a very innocent approach then. We’d design up the desktop site, and then a few mobile versions and then hand that over to the developers to build. A fair bit of trial and error but it worked well at the time.
In the last few years we’ve stopped thinking of a web project as multiple different sites for different devices. You know; mobile, desktop, tablet… and other devices. In reality it is just one site! We don’t talk about desktop, tablet, mobile anymore. Designers need to move away from that. A lot of designers design for Apple products! It’s what they use themselves, but in reality there are thousands of devices out there. Laptops, phones, touch surfaces, consoles, VR, tablets etc. It’s a challenge, that’s for sure!
At Whitespace we make sure that everyone is involved right through the project from start to finish. So designers, developers, producers all sit down and work together on a project. It’s a super collaborative way to work and we’re really starting to see the benefits.
Regardless of how a user views a site they expect the same experience and access to all the same information from whatever device they have. The difficulty of course is it can take longer to develop. You need more people in on the process thinking about it at every stage of the journey. That doesn’t come without cost and time implications — which can be difficult to explain to some clients.
In terms of technical redundancy you’ve got a great example in Flash. Back when browsers announced they were no longer supporting Flash we’d already been exploring developing all of our online advertising in HTML5. It’s still difficult recognising when a certain technology is dead and gone. It can be difficult for us and it can be a headache for our clients. You need to keep on top of that and give your staff, client and suppliers time to adapt.
I’m really excited about VR which is still to fully reveal it’s potential. When you consider how far that’s evolved over the last six months… just imagine where it will be in five years! I can already picture someone sitting at home watching the Monaco Grand Prix. They’re on their couch but they’re also in the cab of the lead car, able to switch seats or camera angles, live. It’s great knowing we could be pushing the cutting edge of that.
[Whitespace did push the cutting edge of VR for Visit Scotland. On May 25th they won another award, this one for app design.]
Stew_
The second part of the question I suppose is the client reaction. How do your customers feel about building something which risks becoming redundant so quickly?
Chris_
Of course there is that potential. It might not be long after you make something that it needs updating. There’s really no such thing as future proofing. We try our hardest to make sure that what we deliver will last as far into the future as it can. Some of our clients really understand this and are equally excited about embracing any changes that happen along the way.
We think there’s always room for improvement. It’s not a bad thing that nothing is ever totally finished. Our projects are like living creatures and should constantly be evolving. They must change as tech does and (as always) with changing customer expectations and requirements.
It’s nothing personal
Stew_
What’s your favourite project so far?
Chris_
Tough question, someone asked me that just yesterday and I struggled then. Tell you what I really like. I like seeing other folk buzzing when they’re presenting their work, that is amazing. Particularly when they’ve nailed it and you can see an infectiousness spread throughout a room!
I don’t actually design any more, or rather I’ve taken my hands off the tools. I’m exceptionally proud of being part of the team here though. We’ve done incredibly well at some of the design awards recently and being part of that is really, really great.
There are so many small moments though, if not every day at least every week. The ups and downs of creativity are always satisfying but you really need to have the right type of pressure on a studio to get the best results. I’ve actually written an article on the creative boiling point and when you get that right and there’s a buzz in the studio that’s magic.
The new studio.
I didn’t really answer your question there! But I would say my favourite project is usually the last one we did.
[Chris notices a note on my question titles]
Are you about to ask me if I’ve ever lost it?
Lost it?
Chris_
I guess it depends what you mean by ‘lost it’? From a mental point of view, yes, I ‘lost it’ once. Some projects can be exceptionally challenging. I remember walking out of the studio to calm myself down. No one noticed! I am a very calm person but this was just pressure beyond pressure. I think everyone has that at some point and it makes your recognise your absolute limits. Mine are pretty high luckily!
In one of my early jobs, long before Whitespace, I was working with a great bunch of folk but it just wasn’t working out. I did feel for a while like, ‘what am I doing?’. I left after 10 months and was jobless wondering what to do. It takes a while to find the right agency and a great team and I’m glad to say I’ve found that now.
When I ask myself why I get up in the morning, it’s not to make money. It’s to come in and work together and do awesome stuff with amazing people.
[The question would not have been “have you ever lost it”]
Edinburgh
Stew_
Finally, what’s the best thing about work or life in Edinburgh?
Chris_
I could say it’s people, culture, beauty, amazing choice of burger bars, history etc etc… But everyone says that.
For me I really think there is this massive sense of optimism and great desire to do great work in Edinburgh which has manifested over the last few years. There are great agencies and the start-up scene is in overdrive. Codebase opened it doors a few years ago now and it is now Europe’s largest and fastest growing tech incubator. The creative scene has had a kick up the arse with the emergence of new technology and social media. It’s a really exciting moment in our industry and Edinburgh is in a great position to take the bull by the horns and show the world what it is capable of!
Someone said to me that ‘Scotland is in the arse end of nowhere’. I say ‘so what?’. In this modern era you can be anywhere in the world and produce amazing work with amazing people, it doesn’t matter where you are. Boundaries are breaking and walls are falling. So get to it!
Interview: Andy Harvey
I met Andy at Moving Brands’ UK studio. Joining us were Georgina Milne, Hayley Mountford and Biff, Andy's best pal and unofficial studio mascot.
Andy has driven digital-first identity and experience projects for Barclaycard, Google and Tesco to name a few. He firmly believes that the idea is as important as the execution, and enjoys working closely with clients and creative teams to define, build and activate brands with personality and impact.
Nowadays* Andy works as a creative director at forpeople.
*last updated July 2020.
Love at first sight?
Stewart Ainslie_
What first attracted you to Moving Brands?
Andy Harvey_
It was my wife. She worked at Moving Brands years previous to me starting here and only had positive things to say about the studio and its culture. Of course I knew the studio's work and when Marque Creative wrapped up they [Moving Brands] were the first people I got in touch with.
It was all a bit odd really. I popped round for a portfolio review and by the end of the day I was up and running on a project!
The boring* bit
Stew_
Let's talk about the day-to-day studio stuff. I'm interested in how many people tend to work on a project.
Andy_
Ok this is a tricky one. It really comes down to what the brief requires. I'm sure you guys [at EQ Design] will approach a brief in a similar manner.
First we nail down what the purpose of a project is, we define a spec and figure out how to deliver our best work within the client's timeframe and budget. This is often a task in itself as what a client thinks they want is sometimes at odds with what their brand really needs. No job is straightforward, every single one has unique constraints or challenges. Truly understanding them and working through them drives the best work from us and delivers the best work for our clients customers.
So in answer to your question; we operate under 'stretchy' parameters, [Andy winces here and we discuss pretentious designer terminology] accommodating all of the brief requirements and building the right team for the job.
That was a bit of a politician's answer wasn't it?
"We operate under 'stretchy' parameters..."
Stew_
I'll let you off Andy! What about locations? You've got studios in San Francisco, New York and Zurich. How often do these separate teams collaborate?
Andy_
Oh all the time! Similar to your first question it really comes down to what will work for the client and how it will benefit a project. On those occasions where there's been a call for them, cross Atlantic projects have been really interesting and added real value.
A particular benefit has been the way we worked with the SF team on a recent project. With the time difference you'd imagine this could create all sorts of issues but what we learnt is that we could operate a relay system with handovers at the beginning and end of our respective days. This provides us with an incredible opportunity to work around the clock on a project, not something every agency can offer. It's been immensely valuable for us and of course the client benefits too.
The fun (scary) bit
Stew_
Where does your involvement in a project begin and end?
Andy_
My role encompasses the entire project right from its inception. Typically I'd be involved with the client from day one, meeting with them, conducting research and getting to know their industry and target market, building and directing a team here and collaborating with the client throughout.
Stew_
How do you deal with the blank sheet of paper?
Andy_
I suppose we've already touched on this but to be more specific I suppose there isn't a blank sheet moment. By the time we've really gotten under the skin of a brief and know what the driving purpose of our work will be our sheet is already covered in questions and answers. The exciting bit, as your card suggests, is solving these challenges.
The interview is a fairly relaxed affair which involved Andy selecting cards with fairly broad terms written on them. Topics covered Andy's experience with Moving Brands, their process and one question to test his vulnerabilities. In the interest of brevity this interview has not been published in full.
You and Moving Brands
Stew_
What is the most challenging part of working at Moving Brands?
Andy_
Tough question, I think it's more of a personal challenge than one which directly relates to Moving Brands. I suppose the upside of being driven, and being in a progressive creative environment is that you can always take the teams and the work further than everyone is individually capable. The downside is that you can sometimes (hopefully rarely) be less human than you like to be – as long as you can take the work (but not yourself) seriously then it's all good.
Stew_
What have you learnt from Moving Brands?
Andy_
The real lesson won't come as much of a surprise. Working with ambitious talented creatives is an inspiration and really keeps you sharp. No matter what point you reach in your career there's always room for improvement, and Moving Brands is full of talented individuals who are all striving for the next great thing. It's the environment, where professional growth is encouraged from above and below, which has influenced me most. We're all constantly trying to better ourselves. If you're only as good as your last project then the next one had better be everything it can be!
The best part is that I feel like I can talk to anyone in the studio, regardless of title or seniority, and they'll have an opinion.
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If you have any questions for the team at Moving Brands tweet director James Bull with the hashtag #jimspeaks and he'll gladly reply!
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This article was first published on LinkedIn on June 19th 2015 by Stewart Ainslie.
[Edit: the original interview took place on May 29 2015. It clearly took me some time to publish the write-up!]