Interview: Andrew Dobbie
Andrew Dobbie, Founder of Made Brave, on his lighting perversion, Scotland’s top talent and avoiding safe places.
Illustration: Asa Roger for Made Brave
Managing Director, Entrepreuneur*, Board Member, Public Speaker and tech influencer. None of these terms quite sum up Andrew. A better description might be a lover of MMA, burritos and photography with a passion for good business and design.
Read time: 10 mins
Since establishing the business in 2012 Andrew has overseen the rapid growth of Made Brave from a one-man-band to a studio of 24 staff and counting! NotFrom_ met Andrew in Made Brave’s third studio just off Glasgow Green in the city’s East End.
NotFrom_ London
Stewart Ainslie_
Where do you stand on London?
Andrew Dobbie_
We’ve fairly recently opened our presence in London so this interview is well timed!
We’ve a few customers down that way and London creates a lot of new opportunities for us too. Glasgow is great fun but the challenge of being a team of over twenty is covering that scale of business overheads. If we continue to expand it means looking for bigger projects. Whilst that doesn’t mean relocating to London it does mean extending your reach somewhat.
The one thing that ‘pains’ me about London is that often talented people disappear off down there. Potential customers from Scotland too, believing that London agencies are doing something magically different from what’s going on here. That can be frustrating at times.
What’s mad is that there are great people and business up here but I suppose we’re not great at shouting about that. Throughout history Scotland is credited with some of the finest inventors in the world! Perhaps because it rains here and we’re all stuck inside...
Whilst I don’t currently have any huge inclination to have a big presence there you never know. When I started Made Brave, it was just me and all I wanted to do was create great stuff. Now… [Andrew tails off, throws us a winning smile, shrugs and gestures around the studio].
Baby Brave
Stew_
The Made Brave story starts with you, a £1,000 bank balance and a brand new family family member. Can we touch on those early days?
Andrew_
It still feels like the early days Stew! I guess at the beginning I wasn’t thinking about building a business, I just wanted to increase my income for my family.
At first I think I was a bit naive. I didn’t know who was out there really. I had no idea who might support me or offer business advice. I firmly believed that if I treated everybody well, whether I was offering or asking for help, I couldn’t fail as entrepreneur*. Which is odd because reportedly I now am one and I can’t even spell the word. I still stand by that sentiment though, be kind and do good work.
*entrepreneur
Stew_
Who specifically have helped out along the way?
Andrew_
Power of Youth was where I discovered this community of similar people; on similar journeys. It was there that I realised the value of a network who are going through the same challenges as you. Peer to peer learning is great, you have the opportunity to lift each other up. By tackling similar challenges at similar times you can pool your learning.
Scottish Enterprise have also been incredible, I’m a big advocate of them so should also sing their praises.
Then there’s my family and home—it’s a cliche but for good reason. When you’ve got a young family you need to be able to offer financial support and you also really need to spend time together. Thankfully Pam, my incredible wife, was there for me providing a real anchor at home whilst encouraging me to build what became this business. That’s been really important, as is having friends and colleagues who trust you and who you trust implicitly. It takes the edge off setting up in business, something that can otherwise be a very lonely task.
Tech Toys
Stew_
You’ve always got your paws on the best swag, tell us a bit more about how and why?
Andrew_
First of all, if money were no object I’d be buying all this swag for myself. Before I started a family all of my fun money went on cameras and gadgets. I still like to be the first person to buy the first release whenever something new comes out. Nowadays I think if you’re creating the type of work that we do you have to be an expert in the potential applications, particularly in tech. Our customers rely on us to introduce them to these new innovations. If only there was a way to get our hands on all of it for free!
Getting to play with the gadgets makes my heart tick and it’s great fun in the studio but that extends to our core gear too. It’s important to have your staff using the best kit available. In our case that’s setting every employee up with a 27” iMac and a second screen so they have the best possible advantage when creating great work. It would be crazy to hire the best people and put them on outdated or substandard equipment.
Home from home
Stew_
Your studio looks like a nightclub-meets-teenagers bedroom. Can you tell us a bit about that?
Andrew_
Well this borderline obsession with ‘cool stuff’ started as reflection of what’s going on in my head, which can be a bit of a carnival. When you add it all up you are at work longer than you’re at home with your family. So whilst the studio doesn’t have to look like this (and it would certainly be cheaper if it didn’t) I believe an environment that inspires me and (hopefully) my guys is just as important as the tools of the trade. You’ve got to spend time in a place that you can live and thrive in and that attracts the best talent. It makes our lives enjoyable, which is pretty important for human beings.
Because I’m a designer with a photography background and Glasgow is an inspiring city it makes sense that the studio should be part of that. Designers take inspiration from everywhere and that makes it so important to me to get our studio just right. I want the best out of my guys so they need the best studio I can give them.
A lot of the stuff; and gadgets; and bits is me on a Friday night with a glass of wine and an iPad… “I’m a bit of a lighting pervert”. So the real expense has been lighting, the sun makes you happy.
In Glasgow we don’t always get a lot of natural light. We’ve compensated with daylight bulbs, neon backlit ‘stuff’ and LEDs placed around the building. This gives us control over the colour and mood of any part of the studio. It makes me happy and I hope both our clients and the staff enjoy it too!
Teal in the face
Stew_
What project, person or place to you most admire? Or perhaps you’ve got a dream client or project you can tell me about?
Andrew_
That’s a bit tricky. I don’t want to sound like an arsehole but there isn’t any one person, company or project that I admire in that way. That did sound a bit up myself there didn’t it—can we do the thing where we pretend you'll edit that out?
What I mean is everything inspires me equally.
Take this interview format as an example. You’ve inspired me today because this is one of the most fun interviews I’ve ever had and the format is great! That doesn’t mean I’m teal with envy but I would have gladly developed your card came questions myself. That applies to lots of things, perhaps everything.
I’ve never been the type to follow one designer or design company above all others. That’s not because I think I’m better than anyone but I’ve always followed my own gut instinct. I think if you focus on other designers the end product is at risk of being a poor man’s copy of that thing.
All design is referential. If you’ve always got your eyes open then you see inspiration everywhere. Those observations help to ensure that the work you produce is both interesting to you and relevant to other people. At least that’s what I tell myself.
Stew_
I wish you’d said derivative there Andrew!
Andrew_
If being derivative is all about being inspired then I suppose we are! We’re big believers that anyone can be creative. It doesn’t matter what your job title is.
If someone understands the goal and has gets our design process then their input matters. That person’s creative idea is as valid as the design director or a designer.
Although there are lots of successful companies and successful brands out there I’m equally inspired by everyone!
The buzz
Stew_
You’ve obviously found success and Made Brave looks like a great place to work. Assuming every day isn’t a dream environment; what are your biggest problems, hurdles or challenges when you’re under extreme pressure?
Andrew_
I mean, these grey hairs… I’ve got one for every employee at Made Brave, and I had none when I started out! It’s a business so it obviously relies on a certain amount of money coming in each month. It relies on people performing and it relies on having the right people. It is actually all about the people. People can be unpredictable but it’s really important that on the rare occasion that something does go wrong the rest of us rally. Agency life is full of challenges you’ve just got to work through them. It would be easy if it weren’t for staff and customers but of course it relies on both…
Like any business you don’t let that show with your marketing and we take our own marketing very seriously. That takes a huge amount of time and effort to do, you’ll see every post that goes out has been retouched to perfection and it’s constant work. Made Brave is it’s own client so we allocate ourselves both staff time and a real budget.
If people look at a picture of me holding a baby Richard Branson or they get their backs up because we said ‘jobby’ on Twitter then they’re probably not for us!
When it comes to employees we tend to find ourselves working with people who get it [Made Brave humour] too. When it comes to employment, the majority of successful candidates have applied to us using our own tone of voice. There’s always a really high standard of weird and wonderful stuff. We’ve had tins of beans and they’ve redesigned the packaging to put their CV on it, boxes of Nutella, balloons, jigsaw’s with our faces on them. Someone turned up at the door dressed as a mad hatter, that was great, then there was the Irn Bru bottle.
When it comes to job hunting that’s the best thing you can do, I suppose it’s being successful on your first brief.
Coming back to pressure, I’m no expert. With every employee that joins us I’m managing the largest company I’ve ever run before! There are challenges every day, if it was easy everyone would do it. What’s worked so far (I hope) is treating everyone well and with respect and supporting them when their personal lives or external factors take priority over their work.
Lightsabers and Deloreans
Stew_
The studio looks like you’re prepping for a flat party and the environment in the studio feels like a playground. Does that directly influence your work?
Andrew_
I think a lot of people come to us because they say they’re after something different. By itself that’s nothing unique but I think that we’ve been lucky to have worked with clients who truly want to push things. I hope they call on us is because we’re perceived as being Brave. When I chat to the team you’ll often hear it said that we’re avoiding doing safe. You can do safe all day long… We could give our clients the safe option but we’ll always drive for the brave option.
I suppose what’s helped is our clients have seen our rapid growth and we’ve tried to be pretty transparent about how we’ve built our brand. That created a bit more faith, sharing some (though not all) of your ‘secrets’.
That’s actually how Made Social came about. A few years ago based off some well received social media stuff of our own. Now I’m a photographer, so when I was first asked I was totally taken aback, of course we said yes though! Sometimes you don’t know what your business is going to become, it can grow into something you never imagined. I wouldn't have been able to tell you at the start that a few years down the line we would be managing social for big brands.
Stew_
How do you see Design, Digital and Social evolving and where will Made Brave be?
Andrew_
This stuff changes all the time but the one thing that always remains in the middle is brand. You notice little trends within every industry, I’m always interested in how designers sell themselves. For a long time it was all about Digital, which is just an output. Now the focus is swinging back to brand, or creative. Whatever term we use in 2032 it’s just a name for building relationships or affinity between a customer and a brand. What we do is brand and what we use to come up with the stuff we sell is creativity.
In terms of current technical innovations I wouldn’t want to guess. There’s so much going on out there, and some of it like the VR headsets, have already crept into the studio too. Who knows what’s around the corner! I suppose the answer is that technology is changing all of us every day and what developments make a real mark on the industry remain to be seen but it’ll all have an effect. For us to stay ahead we’ll play with all the gear and see what sticks but those important client meetings will always be brand focussed.
Do the People Make Glasgow?
Stew_
What’s your favourite aspect of working in Glasgow?
A. Well whoever came up with ‘that’ line [People Make Glasgow] did a great job—I wish it was us!
I think every city could use that sentiment but particularly in Glasgow the people really do make it. There’s quite a lot of honesty in Glasgow you know, people really tell it like it is. I quite like that and I hope we are like that. We try not to butter things up or talk in jargon and I think that’s representative of us and the city of Glasgow too. You might not always like that but I find it charming.
I’ve spent more than half of my life here and Glasgow’s always been good to me. You can really see this part of the city is coming up too and it’s great feeling like we’re a small part of that!