Interview: Andrew Dobbie
Andrew Dobbie, Founder of Made Brave, on his lighting perversion, Scotland’s top talent and avoiding safe places.
Illustration: Asa Roger for Made Brave
Managing Director, Entrepreuneur*, Board Member, Public Speaker and tech influencer. None of these terms quite sum up Andrew. A better description might be a lover of MMA, burritos and photography with a passion for good business and design.
Read time: 10 mins
Since establishing the business in 2012 Andrew has overseen the rapid growth of Made Brave from a one-man-band to a studio of 24 staff and counting! NotFrom_ met Andrew in Made Brave’s third studio just off Glasgow Green in the city’s East End.
NotFrom_ London
Stewart Ainslie_
Where do you stand on London?
Andrew Dobbie_
We’ve fairly recently opened our presence in London so this interview is well timed!
We’ve a few customers down that way and London creates a lot of new opportunities for us too. Glasgow is great fun but the challenge of being a team of over twenty is covering that scale of business overheads. If we continue to expand it means looking for bigger projects. Whilst that doesn’t mean relocating to London it does mean extending your reach somewhat.
The one thing that ‘pains’ me about London is that often talented people disappear off down there. Potential customers from Scotland too, believing that London agencies are doing something magically different from what’s going on here. That can be frustrating at times.
What’s mad is that there are great people and business up here but I suppose we’re not great at shouting about that. Throughout history Scotland is credited with some of the finest inventors in the world! Perhaps because it rains here and we’re all stuck inside...
Whilst I don’t currently have any huge inclination to have a big presence there you never know. When I started Made Brave, it was just me and all I wanted to do was create great stuff. Now… [Andrew tails off, throws us a winning smile, shrugs and gestures around the studio].
Baby Brave
Stew_
The Made Brave story starts with you, a £1,000 bank balance and a brand new family family member. Can we touch on those early days?
Andrew_
It still feels like the early days Stew! I guess at the beginning I wasn’t thinking about building a business, I just wanted to increase my income for my family.
At first I think I was a bit naive. I didn’t know who was out there really. I had no idea who might support me or offer business advice. I firmly believed that if I treated everybody well, whether I was offering or asking for help, I couldn’t fail as entrepreneur*. Which is odd because reportedly I now am one and I can’t even spell the word. I still stand by that sentiment though, be kind and do good work.
*entrepreneur
Stew_
Who specifically have helped out along the way?
Andrew_
Power of Youth was where I discovered this community of similar people; on similar journeys. It was there that I realised the value of a network who are going through the same challenges as you. Peer to peer learning is great, you have the opportunity to lift each other up. By tackling similar challenges at similar times you can pool your learning.
Scottish Enterprise have also been incredible, I’m a big advocate of them so should also sing their praises.
Then there’s my family and home—it’s a cliche but for good reason. When you’ve got a young family you need to be able to offer financial support and you also really need to spend time together. Thankfully Pam, my incredible wife, was there for me providing a real anchor at home whilst encouraging me to build what became this business. That’s been really important, as is having friends and colleagues who trust you and who you trust implicitly. It takes the edge off setting up in business, something that can otherwise be a very lonely task.
Tech Toys
Stew_
You’ve always got your paws on the best swag, tell us a bit more about how and why?
Andrew_
First of all, if money were no object I’d be buying all this swag for myself. Before I started a family all of my fun money went on cameras and gadgets. I still like to be the first person to buy the first release whenever something new comes out. Nowadays I think if you’re creating the type of work that we do you have to be an expert in the potential applications, particularly in tech. Our customers rely on us to introduce them to these new innovations. If only there was a way to get our hands on all of it for free!
Getting to play with the gadgets makes my heart tick and it’s great fun in the studio but that extends to our core gear too. It’s important to have your staff using the best kit available. In our case that’s setting every employee up with a 27” iMac and a second screen so they have the best possible advantage when creating great work. It would be crazy to hire the best people and put them on outdated or substandard equipment.
Home from home
Stew_
Your studio looks like a nightclub-meets-teenagers bedroom. Can you tell us a bit about that?
Andrew_
Well this borderline obsession with ‘cool stuff’ started as reflection of what’s going on in my head, which can be a bit of a carnival. When you add it all up you are at work longer than you’re at home with your family. So whilst the studio doesn’t have to look like this (and it would certainly be cheaper if it didn’t) I believe an environment that inspires me and (hopefully) my guys is just as important as the tools of the trade. You’ve got to spend time in a place that you can live and thrive in and that attracts the best talent. It makes our lives enjoyable, which is pretty important for human beings.
Because I’m a designer with a photography background and Glasgow is an inspiring city it makes sense that the studio should be part of that. Designers take inspiration from everywhere and that makes it so important to me to get our studio just right. I want the best out of my guys so they need the best studio I can give them.
A lot of the stuff; and gadgets; and bits is me on a Friday night with a glass of wine and an iPad… “I’m a bit of a lighting pervert”. So the real expense has been lighting, the sun makes you happy.
In Glasgow we don’t always get a lot of natural light. We’ve compensated with daylight bulbs, neon backlit ‘stuff’ and LEDs placed around the building. This gives us control over the colour and mood of any part of the studio. It makes me happy and I hope both our clients and the staff enjoy it too!
Teal in the face
Stew_
What project, person or place to you most admire? Or perhaps you’ve got a dream client or project you can tell me about?
Andrew_
That’s a bit tricky. I don’t want to sound like an arsehole but there isn’t any one person, company or project that I admire in that way. That did sound a bit up myself there didn’t it—can we do the thing where we pretend you'll edit that out?
What I mean is everything inspires me equally.
Take this interview format as an example. You’ve inspired me today because this is one of the most fun interviews I’ve ever had and the format is great! That doesn’t mean I’m teal with envy but I would have gladly developed your card came questions myself. That applies to lots of things, perhaps everything.
I’ve never been the type to follow one designer or design company above all others. That’s not because I think I’m better than anyone but I’ve always followed my own gut instinct. I think if you focus on other designers the end product is at risk of being a poor man’s copy of that thing.
All design is referential. If you’ve always got your eyes open then you see inspiration everywhere. Those observations help to ensure that the work you produce is both interesting to you and relevant to other people. At least that’s what I tell myself.
Stew_
I wish you’d said derivative there Andrew!
Andrew_
If being derivative is all about being inspired then I suppose we are! We’re big believers that anyone can be creative. It doesn’t matter what your job title is.
If someone understands the goal and has gets our design process then their input matters. That person’s creative idea is as valid as the design director or a designer.
Although there are lots of successful companies and successful brands out there I’m equally inspired by everyone!
The buzz
Stew_
You’ve obviously found success and Made Brave looks like a great place to work. Assuming every day isn’t a dream environment; what are your biggest problems, hurdles or challenges when you’re under extreme pressure?
Andrew_
I mean, these grey hairs… I’ve got one for every employee at Made Brave, and I had none when I started out! It’s a business so it obviously relies on a certain amount of money coming in each month. It relies on people performing and it relies on having the right people. It is actually all about the people. People can be unpredictable but it’s really important that on the rare occasion that something does go wrong the rest of us rally. Agency life is full of challenges you’ve just got to work through them. It would be easy if it weren’t for staff and customers but of course it relies on both…
Like any business you don’t let that show with your marketing and we take our own marketing very seriously. That takes a huge amount of time and effort to do, you’ll see every post that goes out has been retouched to perfection and it’s constant work. Made Brave is it’s own client so we allocate ourselves both staff time and a real budget.
If people look at a picture of me holding a baby Richard Branson or they get their backs up because we said ‘jobby’ on Twitter then they’re probably not for us!
When it comes to employees we tend to find ourselves working with people who get it [Made Brave humour] too. When it comes to employment, the majority of successful candidates have applied to us using our own tone of voice. There’s always a really high standard of weird and wonderful stuff. We’ve had tins of beans and they’ve redesigned the packaging to put their CV on it, boxes of Nutella, balloons, jigsaw’s with our faces on them. Someone turned up at the door dressed as a mad hatter, that was great, then there was the Irn Bru bottle.
When it comes to job hunting that’s the best thing you can do, I suppose it’s being successful on your first brief.
Coming back to pressure, I’m no expert. With every employee that joins us I’m managing the largest company I’ve ever run before! There are challenges every day, if it was easy everyone would do it. What’s worked so far (I hope) is treating everyone well and with respect and supporting them when their personal lives or external factors take priority over their work.
Lightsabers and Deloreans
Stew_
The studio looks like you’re prepping for a flat party and the environment in the studio feels like a playground. Does that directly influence your work?
Andrew_
I think a lot of people come to us because they say they’re after something different. By itself that’s nothing unique but I think that we’ve been lucky to have worked with clients who truly want to push things. I hope they call on us is because we’re perceived as being Brave. When I chat to the team you’ll often hear it said that we’re avoiding doing safe. You can do safe all day long… We could give our clients the safe option but we’ll always drive for the brave option.
I suppose what’s helped is our clients have seen our rapid growth and we’ve tried to be pretty transparent about how we’ve built our brand. That created a bit more faith, sharing some (though not all) of your ‘secrets’.
That’s actually how Made Social came about. A few years ago based off some well received social media stuff of our own. Now I’m a photographer, so when I was first asked I was totally taken aback, of course we said yes though! Sometimes you don’t know what your business is going to become, it can grow into something you never imagined. I wouldn't have been able to tell you at the start that a few years down the line we would be managing social for big brands.
Stew_
How do you see Design, Digital and Social evolving and where will Made Brave be?
Andrew_
This stuff changes all the time but the one thing that always remains in the middle is brand. You notice little trends within every industry, I’m always interested in how designers sell themselves. For a long time it was all about Digital, which is just an output. Now the focus is swinging back to brand, or creative. Whatever term we use in 2032 it’s just a name for building relationships or affinity between a customer and a brand. What we do is brand and what we use to come up with the stuff we sell is creativity.
In terms of current technical innovations I wouldn’t want to guess. There’s so much going on out there, and some of it like the VR headsets, have already crept into the studio too. Who knows what’s around the corner! I suppose the answer is that technology is changing all of us every day and what developments make a real mark on the industry remain to be seen but it’ll all have an effect. For us to stay ahead we’ll play with all the gear and see what sticks but those important client meetings will always be brand focussed.
Do the People Make Glasgow?
Stew_
What’s your favourite aspect of working in Glasgow?
A. Well whoever came up with ‘that’ line [People Make Glasgow] did a great job—I wish it was us!
I think every city could use that sentiment but particularly in Glasgow the people really do make it. There’s quite a lot of honesty in Glasgow you know, people really tell it like it is. I quite like that and I hope we are like that. We try not to butter things up or talk in jargon and I think that’s representative of us and the city of Glasgow too. You might not always like that but I find it charming.
I’ve spent more than half of my life here and Glasgow’s always been good to me. You can really see this part of the city is coming up too and it’s great feeling like we’re a small part of that!
Interview: Steve Simpson
15 min read
Steve is a world class hand lettering and packaging designer living in Dublin.
On London
Stewart Ainslie_
Usually my first question is how do you feel about London. You’ve moved around a lot. Can you tell me a bit about where you’ve worked and where you love to work?
Steve Simpson_
Oh Stew I don’t know where to start. My whole career started in the UK and although I’m not from London I did work there for a time.
Before I arrived in Ireland (in 1990) I did court London a little bit. I had been working in Manchester’s Cosgrove Hall. Danger Mouse and Thames Television had lost their TV franchise and we were all being let go.
I actually went down to London looking for new work, but back then it was as an animator and as a story board artist. So I did think about London for a short while I guess. My plan was to find work in London and bring it back to Manchester. There was a time that London was the focal point for so many things. I don’t think that’s necessarily the case these days.
Dublin has been great to me. Even if you are starting out in the industry you can be very easily drowned out in a place like London. It can be really hard to get anywhere near the top. I think being in a smaller place has its advantages. Dublin is really good because, even these days it’s what, a little over a million people?
But it’s a capital city and people love it. What’s so amazing about that is you get to be a small fish and grow in a medium size pond.
What’s the population of London, closing in on 10 million?
For me being in a smaller populated capital city is amazing. So if you fight to get to the top then you can do it, which I think is so much harder to do in a place like London.
Murphy’s Law
Stew_
Turning illustration in to a full time career is no mean feat. What was your biggest challenge along the way?
Steve_
The biggest struggle for me was not really knowing what an illustrator was. I did train as technical illustrator. But I didn’t finish the course and never really got to experience illustration. The start of my career was pre digital. In 1983 technical illustration was probably the main area of commercial illustration.
Back then the technical illustrator would be the person who got paid most and received the most work. Everything that was advertised — everything that was created — was by a technical illustrator. They were the crossover between design and illustration. Whether you were designing a car, a lightbulb or a tin of beans, it had to go through a technical illustrator. Printing and photography just wasn’t up to it at that time.
As digital came along all that hand drawn technical stuff was thrown out of the window. CAD came in which led to Photoshop and everything that designers take for granted today.
After working in comics and animation I came back to illustration much later. I didn’t know any illustrators, everyone I knew were animators or comic artists! Established illustrators were using watercolours, markers, paint, etching or… whatever it was. They weren’t using digital. This turned out to be very lucky for me.
Digital was a scary new thing and nobody wanted to take a chance on that.
Nobody really knew what the future was. Graduates coming out of college weren’t experienced in professional drawing for clients. At that stage I’d been doing that for ten years. I entered illustration with digital knowledge that I’d built up myself and ten years of understanding how to compose a drawing to a brief.
What I was creating was like little screenshots of my animation career. These brightly coloured photoshopped cartoons. It was the perfect time as my stuff stood out from traditional illustration.
Remember, I still didn’t know what traditional illustration was. In comparison I think digital work looked so vivid.
Within six months I was working for loads of agencies and design studios full time! I’ll tell you now Stew, it was really bizarre… I still hadn’t met another illustrator.
Stew_
Was your main benefit having a unique style?
Steve_
You could say that but it’s not totally true. I just drew what my clients wanted. I had so many different styles it was ridiculous. But it wasn’t until I met other illustrators that I realised that I was the exception.
I was making a good living but to gain recognition as a ‘real’ illustrator I had to focus on one style. That was where my problems really began!
It was a two part challenge:
One, picking which style to ‘own’. And two, removing all the other stuff from my website. No matter which style I picked I was in trouble. The problem was that I would have very few portfolio pieces in one style. It felt like I was right back to square one.
In exchange for an own-able style I sacrificed the breadth and volume of work I’d done. What was left would make me look less like I was an agency and more like an individual. Even saying that now it sounds mad.
Around the turn of the millennium I started researching illustration. I started understanding illustrations, started looking at the history of illustration. I guess that was the real beginning of my illustration career.
Good craic
Stew_
Who inspires you now? Can you name an artist, illustration movement, or company which you admire?
Steve_
I like Big Fish, they’re a really cool crowd of designers.
This is a bit of a tangent but let me tell you about an epiphany I had. This was maybe 5 years after I figured out what illustration was. My epiphany was the difference between illustration and design.
I’d always struggled with combining my illustration and my graphic design. I kind of fell into graphic design without any training at all. Another struggle was how you fit an illustration into a graphic design piece. They almost always look at odds, and my illustration and design didn’t match up. This was often down to typography.
I had this little moment where, rather than spending two hours trying to find the right font, I tried hand lettering to match my illustrations. Suddenly it was problem solved for me. It’s going to perfectly match every time!
I ask myself a small series of questions when I work on lettering. Questions like ‘is it serif or sans serif’, ‘is it bold’, ‘is it fun’, whatever. So when I draw it to match the rest of the piece it doesnt look forced, or at odds. That led on to my realisation that ‘pure’ graphic design is just another aesthetic style.
Good design doesn’t have to be that graphic. It can be more illustrative. So my design is very illustrative — which works for me. I stopped thinking about my work in terms of ‘graphic design’. The way I looked at it was, if I’m going to produce a label I’m going create an illustration that is printed and wrapped around a bottle. There’s no graphic design as far as I can see in it whatsoever.
I still practise this way of thinking and hand draw, letter and digitise everything I do myself.
Even the barcodes.
Pick up a piece of design right now. Whether you’re looking at an advert or a menu or a flyer or a label more than one designer has worked on that. You could argue that it might be one designer that’s put together a print file or collaborated with a developer on a website.
Look again though. Usually another designer has created the logo. Another designer might have illustrated icons. A whole team might have worked on each typeface. They might use more than one typeface. Even if a design only uses two different typefaces that’s a minimum of two type designers. Now we’re already up to 5–50 people. Then there is the barcode. The barcode has been designed by someone else too.
By the time you’re in the mix that’s at least seven designers putting together something as seemingly simple as a bottle label. To me that usually looks disjointed. It doesn’t feel like it is one single piece. So what I try to do is approach it from this point of view that I want the whole thing to feel cohesive.
Back to Big Fish. They do that very well joining all those dots together. But I don’t think it’s a new thing; I think it’s a very old thing . If you go back to the 1850s or 60s, the whole history of design began with printmaking. Those printmakers are the people who became designers who were themselves illustrators.
All the way through to the 1920s it was one person who was doing the whole job, we didn’t have these complex titles. The term ‘graphic designer’ was only invented in the 1920s. The term ‘illustrator’ was even later than that. There was no need to call somebody an illustrator because there was only one person involved!
So the whole thing has been segmented and broken up. If you go back to the 50s and 60s you’ve got people like David Klein and Jim Flora. These people were making work that was full of illustration, hand drawn lettering and beautiful palettes. That work was completely cohesive. So that’s what I’m going back to. I’m trying to go back to this period where everything worked together. Everything was done by a single person.
Stew_
Is this where you tell me about ‘Adodeism’ Steve?
Steve_
I don’t want to spend too much time talking about Adobeism. I will say that I believe the side effect of Adobe is that they’ve broken us all down into technicians. Which takes away all the fun.
I love Photoshop. I really love Photoshop. I couldn’t do my job without Photoshop but what Adobe are doing now — it’s not for me.
Design software encourages an odd working practise. One where you sit at your desk and from one corner of your screen you pick your fonts. Adobe want to supply all the fonts, all the stock imagery and your colour palettes. Now they can even supply lay-outs! It’s almost, ‘press F1 for a business card, F2 for a label, F3 for a website’… everything’s already laid out there for you.
When I was training you had to go to a Grant enlarger and blow things up and trace them yourself. You cut things out and stuck things down by hand. There was a lot of opportunity for change to occur within the design process. Now everything is so finite. There used to be an infinite number of things you can create with time and imagination. The Adobe model of design has reduced that.
Fast forward 10 years from now, and I think we would look at this period of time as one influenced by a software company. You’d be able to recognise what’s being created as being heavily influenced by Adobe. It’s very odd.
We will reach a point where more people break free of that process. I’d like to see a real movement towards hand drawn stuff, more crafted stuff. I don’t know if that’s answered the question but that’s my beef…
How big is your head?
Stew_
Designers, artists and illustrators are often known for having ‘big personalities’. How big is your head Steve?
Steve_
Without a tape measure to hand Stew? Size 10½ hat.
The roundabout
Stew_
How do you keep your work fresh whilst keeping that all important continuity in your folio?
Steve_
There is always a risk that after a time your own work becomes self referential. The real trick is acknowledging that. Then constantly questioning yourself and your work.
The deeper we get into this automated design process the more punk everything else becomes.
Sticking to the DIY theme is where I find new creative ideas. That work can still be digital — it doesn’t have to be all hand crafted. Just because you’re starting a project by hand doesn’t mean it’s going to be well crafted. Conversely something can be beautifully crafted and put together on a computer. The key is taking time and thinking about all the available options. That can be difficult in front of a computer.
I think there is always a bit of my humour in my work. It’s very hard for me to be completely serious about what I’m doing. I guess I’m lucky that my clients often want the sort of work that brings people joy.
Draw or tell
Stew_
What gives you most job satisfaction?
Steve_
Oh easy Stew, I like teaching. I don’t want to be a full time educator, but I actually love it…
Maybe I’m just lucky. My whole career has been about being at the right place at the right time. I run workshops and so going into colleges I’ll do projects.
Teaching people analogue thinking and analogue production is so important to me. Encouraging people to think in a different way is really valuable. Using a pencil, sketchbook workings — getting them to start with thumbnail sketches! Playing out entire ideas on pen and paper is key.
The other thing I always say which is so important to new designers is:
I encourage failure in my workshops. It’s about experimenting, trying things you wouldn’t normally attempt, getting things wrong — all this is vital in the creation process. If you go through the process without experimenting then you are at exactly the same place you were at the start. I have taught you nothing.
If I can get you to a point where you feel like you are so miserable and shit that you almost start crying, then you are going through a process of learning something new!
Stew_
…I’m going to use that as a quote…
Steve_
Experiencing and overcoming that feeling of crapness is amazing though Stew. These are small steps that our entire careers are based on and I don’t think there’s such thing as ‘enough’ critical discussion. I mean that amongst all designers and their peers but particularly in education.
Stew_
When it comes to self promotion (and apologies for the job titles) have we almost come full circle. From commercial artist back to artist?
Steve_
It’s a very new world and it’s a very strange place. There are more and more people able to show their work to the general public and the general public are interested. That comes into the whole art thing. Eight years ago I remember being in Pasadena and thinking that it’s amazing being allowed to show our work in galleries. Which is really weird. It’s easy to get illustration into galleries now. Back then, only eight years ago, it was completely alien.
Illustration has come so far in this short period of time. I guess that has a lot to do with social media. People are talking about illustration and illustrators. They’re sharing it online and galleries are aware of that. The public is more open to what art is. I think we’re just more accepted than ever!
Arrested Development
Stew_
We’ve talked about your career challenges. What about the next generation of superstar illustrators?
Steve_
Over the past eight years or so we’ve been moving past the super stars of illustration. Right now there are still super stars of design and illustration sure — but they are kind of yesteryear. If you were to go back ten years there might have been 20 ‘superstar’ illustrators in the world. I think they would be championed by the few magazines which had a large readership.
Now, we have so many outlets and so many people uploading and following creative work. Pre Instagram we were approaching a real hole as far as illustration went. It was a real recession within illustration. Print was dying, we weren’t finding new outlets for illustration . I know photographers had a similar struggle. Now with Instagram my mother is able to take photographs that look like a professional has taken them!
Stew_
Were stock images and illustration a large part of the problem?
Steve_
For a time stock was a massive problem. It was really killing illustration. Fees were dropping and commissions were drying up. We were being told by the likes of the New York Times and Wired that illustrators needed to adapt to the way the industry was changing . We were going to have to animate editorial illustration as still imagery wasn’t enough for digital content. A few of us, myself included, thought they were mad. This sounded like more work and more work doesn’t always mean more money!
It was a really hard time for illustration. It was an interesting theme at ICON in 2016. The suggestion was that we don’t know the extent of illustration now.
Animation is illustration, design is illustration, books are illustration, entertainment is illustration.
People stand up in public and draw and that’s illustration. We just don’t know where the world of illustration starts or finishes. The way it seems to me is that, in the same way that somebody might have a favourite football team, band, tv show they have their favourite designers and their favourite illustrators. It’s another thing to talk about in the pub.It’s entered the world of the general public.
So I think there aren’t these 10 superstars of illustration any more, there are more like 200, 300, a thousand. They are all over the world, they’re not just in New York or London, they are everywhere and everybody has access to them, everybody can know what they are up to. We get asked to put our signatures on products and packaging.
As someone who primarily works in packaging design this is the first time in our history where we’ve been known for what we do. The only illustrators anybody knew about 10 years ago were editorial illustrators. Typically they got to sign their work. Plus children’s book illustrators as they got their name on the front cover.
It does help if you can animate an illustration in some way. But it doesn’t have to be what we traditionally think of as animation. It doesn’t have to be hand gestures and winks or characters jumping up and down. Something simple like flashing lights or colour changes can be just as impactful. Subtle animation which gives a piece movement or grounds it in the digital world are great. We’re not exclusively dealing with flat pieces of paper any more. When illustrators take commissions it’s absolutely worth keeping that in mind.
Just like my pen and paper fetish. The school of ‘anything’s possible’ is the professional illustrator’s biggest selling point. These things we create are not just a single images. We can bring them to life and see illustrations interacting across different media. That is incredibly exciting. We can provide more value to our clients than ever before.
Stew_
If you were starting out fresh tomorrow what do you think you missed out on that designers have access to today?
Steve_
I think that social media is hugely important. Today’s rising talent have to find and develop a hook. You’ve got to find a way of people noticing you because there is so much competition now.
It’s a tough industry to break in to, always has been I guess. Recently I’ve seen a lot of people describing themselves as studios even though they’re yet to graduate. I can understand why they are doing it though. Why wouldn’t you want to appear more professional than you are at that stage?
That’s putting more pressure on students and new graduates than ever before. Finding something that entertains people works well. Mr Bingo is great example of pushing illustration into a whole new universe.
Mixing in a bit of entertainment with whatever it is you are doing it’s certainly going to get you a lot more attention. I know for a fact that clients who come to me will check out my social media weight. How I conduct myself online, how I talk about clients, how I promote the clients I have worked for — that is all so important today.
Client’s have gotten wise. The advantage for an illustrator with huge online following can’t be underestimated. Clients know the more followers a designer or illustrator has, the bigger their own social media impressions will be. I’m still not sure how comfortable I am about that but, at the moment it seems to make everyone happy.
Pot of Gold
Stew_
What’s your unicorn or white whale? Any particular ambitions for your immediate future?
Steve_
Tough one pal! I feel very commercial, so I kind of want to make time for more personal work. I think that’s really what I want to get back to, creating for passion’s sake.
Lately I feel I’ve turned into more of a graphic designer than I ever expected to be. I’m in danger of being less of an illustrator because of it. Although I would say those roles are the same I don’t think that the rest of the illustration world necessarily agrees. I do feel that illustration is a lot closer to art than where I am at the moment. So I think I’d like to try to find my own voice a bit more.
Stew_
Does that mean going full circle Steve? Would you practise various styles again for example? Or work with entirely different mediums?
Steve_
I think it’s art. I think it’s doing stuff for the hell of it, just because I want to do it. With illustration there are so many things to keep in mind no matter what the brief does or doesn’t prescribe.
A commercial brief tends to come with target markets. Your work has to feel a certain way and it has to appeal to ‘these’ people. It’s got to fit within a set format and use specific colours. There are so many rules.
On reflection I’m actually pretty good at that. I’ll be honest, I really enjoy that! Working within guidelines feels like for me it’s this jigsaw. The puzzle of making things fit, which I’ve always enjoyed doing, working things out is design.
But with my personal work I’d like to be a bit more random, I’d love to surprise myself a bit more often. Not knowing where something is going can be a real pleasure. Slapping paint on bits of wood and actually figuring out what it is later is great. But I don’t know how possible that is, or how well paying.
Interview: Andy Harvey
I met Andy at Moving Brands’ UK studio. Joining us were Georgina Milne, Hayley Mountford and Biff, Andy's best pal and unofficial studio mascot.
Andy has driven digital-first identity and experience projects for Barclaycard, Google and Tesco to name a few. He firmly believes that the idea is as important as the execution, and enjoys working closely with clients and creative teams to define, build and activate brands with personality and impact.
Nowadays* Andy works as a creative director at forpeople.
*last updated July 2020.
Love at first sight?
Stewart Ainslie_
What first attracted you to Moving Brands?
Andy Harvey_
It was my wife. She worked at Moving Brands years previous to me starting here and only had positive things to say about the studio and its culture. Of course I knew the studio's work and when Marque Creative wrapped up they [Moving Brands] were the first people I got in touch with.
It was all a bit odd really. I popped round for a portfolio review and by the end of the day I was up and running on a project!
The boring* bit
Stew_
Let's talk about the day-to-day studio stuff. I'm interested in how many people tend to work on a project.
Andy_
Ok this is a tricky one. It really comes down to what the brief requires. I'm sure you guys [at EQ Design] will approach a brief in a similar manner.
First we nail down what the purpose of a project is, we define a spec and figure out how to deliver our best work within the client's timeframe and budget. This is often a task in itself as what a client thinks they want is sometimes at odds with what their brand really needs. No job is straightforward, every single one has unique constraints or challenges. Truly understanding them and working through them drives the best work from us and delivers the best work for our clients customers.
So in answer to your question; we operate under 'stretchy' parameters, [Andy winces here and we discuss pretentious designer terminology] accommodating all of the brief requirements and building the right team for the job.
That was a bit of a politician's answer wasn't it?
"We operate under 'stretchy' parameters..."
Stew_
I'll let you off Andy! What about locations? You've got studios in San Francisco, New York and Zurich. How often do these separate teams collaborate?
Andy_
Oh all the time! Similar to your first question it really comes down to what will work for the client and how it will benefit a project. On those occasions where there's been a call for them, cross Atlantic projects have been really interesting and added real value.
A particular benefit has been the way we worked with the SF team on a recent project. With the time difference you'd imagine this could create all sorts of issues but what we learnt is that we could operate a relay system with handovers at the beginning and end of our respective days. This provides us with an incredible opportunity to work around the clock on a project, not something every agency can offer. It's been immensely valuable for us and of course the client benefits too.
The fun (scary) bit
Stew_
Where does your involvement in a project begin and end?
Andy_
My role encompasses the entire project right from its inception. Typically I'd be involved with the client from day one, meeting with them, conducting research and getting to know their industry and target market, building and directing a team here and collaborating with the client throughout.
Stew_
How do you deal with the blank sheet of paper?
Andy_
I suppose we've already touched on this but to be more specific I suppose there isn't a blank sheet moment. By the time we've really gotten under the skin of a brief and know what the driving purpose of our work will be our sheet is already covered in questions and answers. The exciting bit, as your card suggests, is solving these challenges.
The interview is a fairly relaxed affair which involved Andy selecting cards with fairly broad terms written on them. Topics covered Andy's experience with Moving Brands, their process and one question to test his vulnerabilities. In the interest of brevity this interview has not been published in full.
You and Moving Brands
Stew_
What is the most challenging part of working at Moving Brands?
Andy_
Tough question, I think it's more of a personal challenge than one which directly relates to Moving Brands. I suppose the upside of being driven, and being in a progressive creative environment is that you can always take the teams and the work further than everyone is individually capable. The downside is that you can sometimes (hopefully rarely) be less human than you like to be – as long as you can take the work (but not yourself) seriously then it's all good.
Stew_
What have you learnt from Moving Brands?
Andy_
The real lesson won't come as much of a surprise. Working with ambitious talented creatives is an inspiration and really keeps you sharp. No matter what point you reach in your career there's always room for improvement, and Moving Brands is full of talented individuals who are all striving for the next great thing. It's the environment, where professional growth is encouraged from above and below, which has influenced me most. We're all constantly trying to better ourselves. If you're only as good as your last project then the next one had better be everything it can be!
The best part is that I feel like I can talk to anyone in the studio, regardless of title or seniority, and they'll have an opinion.
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If you have any questions for the team at Moving Brands tweet director James Bull with the hashtag #jimspeaks and he'll gladly reply!
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This article was first published on LinkedIn on June 19th 2015 by Stewart Ainslie.
[Edit: the original interview took place on May 29 2015. It clearly took me some time to publish the write-up!]